Twin shootings show need for leadership [UPDATED]
And this too shall pass...
On Friday, Brockley Cross was closed due to a shooting incident outside Tickle Me takeaway. Yesterday, much of the area around Brockley Station and Foxberry Road was taped-off due to a second shooting, confirmed by Cllr Walton, who spoke with the police Safer Neighbourhoods Team today.
Mercifully, neither incident was fatal, but any incident involving guns must be considered extremely serious. It's important not to overstate the incidence of crime, even in the face of two such cases, but clearly they must prompt a review of policy in the area and local people need to be reassured that the authorities have a plan. At the moment, as a quick search of Twitter or a scan through the comment pages of this blog will reveal, people in Brockley are well-aware of the problems, but they are not hearing solutions.
When the anti-social behaviour at the junction of Upper Brockley Road and Lewisham Way boiled over in to a shooting incident in 2007, the Mayor resolved to "take control", using the full extent of the Council's powers. A dispersal order was put in place and anecdotal evidence suggests it has had some positive effect.
So-far, we've had no-such resolution as a result of Brockley Cross' problems, which go beyond these two high-profile cases. Official response has been scant. One Council memo we were shown on Friday, understated the severity of the first shooting incident to an almost comical extent.
We're not in a position to say what measures would be appropriate in this instance but we'd hope that an holistic approach, which addresses dangerous traffic (which unlike the shootings has led to the loss of life), anti-social behaviour and crime (which are all part of the same problem) could be developed, so that long-term improvements to Brockley Cross, that will benefit the whole community, are achieved.
The questions we have posed each of the main mayoral candidates were drawn up before either of these incidents but they were asked how they would improve Brockley Cross and what crime and anti-social behaviour problems they consider to be the most serious. So we await their answers with interest.
In the mean time, we hope that anyone effected by either incident enjoys a swift recovery.
Following his conversation with the police, Cllr Walton said:
"Local residents and any possible future residents need to be reassured that these incidents are not going to become a regular feature in Brockley and residents can continue to get about in relative safety. The latest available figures for Brockley Ward show that 'crimes against the person' have reduced from 41.1 per 1000 of the population to 31.8 in the year to February 2010."
UPDATE:
Cllr Walton's blog now carries a statement from the Met Police's Superintendent Lisa Crook:
"We understand the community are anxious about recent incidents of violence in Brockley and share these concerns. Our officers take this very seriously and are committed to putting a stop to violence on our streets. Officers from Trident are investigating these matters and urge anyone with information to contact them.""Members of Brockley Safer Neighbourhoods team are patrolling the ward to reassure local people, and if you need to discuss any concerns please contact the team."
Anyone with information should contact Trident on 020 8785 8580
117 comments:
Please can I ask people not to speculate on the people involved.
Surely my comment was very 'high level' and not directed at anyone specific?
This only serves to reinforce the need for a fresh injection of new leadership in Lewisham. Mayor Bullock has had his dictatorship for far too long now. We need someone who will listen to local people and not just relish in the sound of his own voice and opinions.
I'm not too sure how this can be classed as a Brockley Cross problem in the same way as the traffic issues? These problems with violence aren't caused by that area - they are caused by all sorts of complicated social issues. Tidying up BX would at best force the people elsewhere, or at worse make no difference at all.
Traffic and crime do clearly both need addressing in the area but they are 2 very different problems which will require 2 very different solutions.
Theres still a problem at the Lewisham way end of Upper Brockley Rd,Loud Music till all hours and the distinct smell of the Herbs.
After having always walked up to use Brockley station to get to and from work, I now head down to Honor Oak, the same distance for me.
Even without the shootings the Coulgate Street area has been feeling more and more dangerous in the last few months. The way the cars park in Foxberry Street actually jutting out into Coulgate Street means as a pedestrian you have to cross blind, even before you have to start picking your way around parked cars in front of the station. And that's if you survive crossing Brockley Road - it's unbelievable there are not lights at Harefield Road for pedestrians.
I would have thought the various road deaths that have happened would have led to coroners' recommendations to sort it out immediately. Add street gun battles ... good luck, stores like Degustation and the Broca. I suspect more and more people like me who have a choice of station will be avoiding the area.
this is becoming a concern amongst many residents also because some smaller incidents have occurred recently near the station. For example about a month ago a mum with her two children walking home from the station found a kitchen knife under a car parked in front of the Brockley Barge.
I think the areas between Brockley Station and Brockley Cross need a plan by the Council to improve further and make these incidents a thing of the past; too many shop closed, and too many betting agencies; too many MOT places that close in the evening instead of family friendly shops and bars like the Browns and the Toads Mouth; Harefield Mews that is semi-abandoned; probably the only place in zone two without a parking permit policy near a tube/rail station.
Personally I do not want to transform Brockley into East Dulwich and Nappy Valley, however we can keep the village field and improve the safety of the area by making it more commercially attractive to shops and bars.
I wonder what other residents think about the problem.
"Local residents and any possible future residents need to be reassured that these incidents are not going to become a regular feature in Brockley and residents can continue to get about in relative safety. The latest available figures for Brockley Ward show that 'crimes against the person' have reduced from 41.1 per 1000 of the population to 31.8 in the year to February 2010."
Fine to quote the above, but the fact remains that 2x shootings have happend within a week. Lets not hide behind the stats, and see our local government attack this problem, this will be the most reassuring thing one can do.
All anyone has to do is stand for 5 minutes on Coulgate street or anywhere near the Barge to instantly see some really dodgy looking characters 'doing business' around there. The area needs a Zero Tolerence approach to shady deals, irresponsible parking, illegal littering, dodgy driving, gangs of youths hanging around etc... to really clean the place up. It has a scary feel to it some times which is such a shame as it has great potential. I also use Ladywell and St Johns and find they feel so much safer than Brockley station. The walk up Brockley Road is just horrible - motorbike revving, drivers blaring music etc... really hideous. Doesnt bode well for the hopeful 'Brockley Common' which at present I cant help but feel will become a mecca for all dodgy dealings in the area. Councillors/Major where are ya??
The dodgy dealings around the Barge haven't changed since the bad old Breakspears days.
Before my time Anon but i can well imagine.
Before my time Anon but i can well imagine...
This was exactly why the old Breakspears was closed for so many years. Wetherspoons must have made some serious guarantees about trying to curb antisocial behaviour among its customers to have been allowed to open in the first place. Perhaps this should be revisited.
I think Nick has got the right idea. Clearly Brockley residents need to make their voice heard at the local elections and make this an issue that the council MUST act on.
I disagree with the notion that our environment is not connected with the way people act.
Demonstrating that we (the majority of non-violent Brockley residents) care and are interested in what happens in our locality is an important deterrence. Showing this through discussion with local government to get them to hear that they must make changes happen (through investment in public spaces) demonstrates that the majority are interested in making this sort of thing stop.
Voting for those councillors that take this seriously is, in my opinion, an important (but not the only) thing we can do. For too long Lewisham council has ducked Brockley's development needs for the sake of other higher profile projects. This needs to change and we have a chance to make that happen in May.
Sorry hectoring rant over....
Here's an idea- do the police ever patrol on foot round there? Real police that is - not PCSOs.
I suspect that BX is something of a drugs hub. I have never known so many cars pull up only for someone to hop out then back in again a few minutes later. If you use the station you must have seen the 'meetings' at the end of Coulgate Street. We need a McNulty. In all seriousness I overheard a couple talking about moving away yesterday when directed away from another crime scene.
Totally agree - I'm fairly new to the area but so far I don't think I've seen any police patrolling on foot. I see/hear police sirens flying around almost every day which (unfounded guess here admittedly) I'm pretty sure the kids that think they're in The Wire get off on.
Why are we so quick to equate people calmly and politely buying drugs with acts of aggrivated violence? It's a bit Daily Mail...
Because this is a blog - home of the enraged middle classes
I'm afraid drugs and violence go hand in hand.
Yeah - leave those cuddly drug dealers alone you middle class squares!
"Look at the cutey likkle Yardie!"
*ruffles dreads*
*gets shot in the face*
This needs to stop now!
The only way forward is for a hand gun amnesty to help get rid of guns in the area.
And more regular foot patrols by police at all hours day and night, especially concentrating in this area at least until things calm down.
Buying a small quantity of cannabis may seem a calm and ostensibly victim free act but move up the supply chain into organised crime and that's where the violence arises.
The pen is mightier then the sword so vote for change !
We firstly need good CCTV to catch those who choose this criminal lifestyle followed up by very strong punishment/rehabilitation/education to force them to understand that this behaviour is simply not acceptable in this day and age. These kids want to live in Baltimore or New York in the 80s as its more exciting and gives them a sense of belonging and purpose when in reality they live in a safe leafy London suburb. There are cameras all over London to catch motorists what about the criminals...COUNCILLORS EXPLAIN PLEASE?
It's time for armed police patrols in Brockley?
Glad about the questionmark because that can't be the answer - just raises the stakes.
The earlier postings linking environment with crime are absolutely right. The proposals for the development on Kender were severely criticised (but to no avail) by the medics as being just the sort of built environment that would contribute to depression and criminality. Likewise here, get rid of the cars (except for loading and 20 minute limited parking)green up the Common, clear up the litter possibly soften the murals and attituded change.
Its time for parents to step up and say that they wont stand for their kids running around shooting each other whilst banging on about 'respect' anymore. But that wont happen.
There's been comments on this blog many times about the sense of lawlessness around the station and Brockley Cross.
If you have cars strewn across the street, it just makes the place like dodge ville, where anything goes.
It will take a good deal of concerted effort.
This may sound naff I think we should have a march. But I think a poster campaign expressing our collective revulsion at gun & traffic violence in our community. Maybe even a march or vigil, for the people who have died on the Brockley Road.
Hopefully this would get press attention and shame council into doing something.
"Buying a small quantity of cannabis may seem a calm and ostensibly victim free act but move up the supply chain into organised crime and that's where the violence arises"
ditto hip metropolitan liberals indulging in the odd line of coke at the weekends in the conversation area
The Mrs and I are back in London after our extraordinarily long honeymoon in a couple of weeks. We really looking forward to seeing all the wonderful developments in Brockley (Talbot, the Orchard etc) but this puts a bit of a cloud over it.
I'm all for targeted gentrification of Brockley (but not at the expense of diversity) but I can't see the connection between misguided testosterone filled disaffected youths doing something stupid and parking bays??
We need a period of zero-tolerance to clean up that area. For the first time in 8 years of living in Brockley I have started to feel a bit wary when approaching BX.
And anyone who feels that a bit of drug dealing is neither here nor there is just plain ignorant of how organised crime operates and the connections that ultimately bind street dealers with human trafficking, terrorism etc.
Apparently badly parked cars make the place look like the wild west, so people get the urge to start shooting each other. Or something like that.
On second thoughts, I dont see the connection either.
On honeymoon and looking at the blog - O dear! But at least you are committed to the area and its well-being.
The connection between crime and parking bays, as I see it, is that at present Coulgate Street presents quite a hostile environment with a double line of parked cars and vans, overspilling at either end, a grotty earthen bank, horrible railings up the ramps to a very unwelcoming station building.
Ban the cars along the side by the shops and cafes so they might be tempted to have a few chairs outside in the summer and it suddenly becomes less threatening to ordinary folk and more inimical to the shady dealings from expensive cars that people have been talking of..
"And anyone who feels that a bit of drug dealing is neither here nor there is just plain ignorant of how organised crime operates and the connections that ultimately bind street dealers with human trafficking, terrorism etc."
That's as maybe, but the good people of Brockley don't want to drive out drug dealers to end human trafficking or terrorism - they want to do it to get the young scary hooligans off the street so they can have a cup of tea without worrying about being mugged or caught in the crossfire.
Both good reasons but let's keep some perspective.
"Originally proposed by Dr. James Q. Wilson and George Kelling, broken windows theory suggests that a society or subset of society that appears to be lawless will itself breed lawlessness. Broken windows theory is most
closely associated with conservative sociology, focusing on social cohesion and law and order. It has had great influence on law enforcement policy from the 1980s to the present, but its proposals have not always proven accurate."
Wonder whether any politicians will be handing out leaflets at Brockley station soon...in which case this is the topic I will be questioning....
I am all for changes to parking around the station but it has very little to do with this.
I am not a fan of the way we use CCTV in this country generally but cameras around the station are surely a must...
Regular police interactions in BX would provide intel and deter those who wish to engage in violence.
Isn't most of this just obvious? I am angry that the powers that be are so crap at what they purport to do.
I have to admit I`ve been driving the wife to dispair by my need to get my weekly brockleycentral fix.
On our first day back we`re torn between brekkie at TM2, or lunch at either the Talbot or the Orchard ...
Not sure I see the connection but you`re duggestion is no bad thing.
Did anything ever happen to that shop with the new windows at the end of Endwell Rd? There we`re rumours of a restaurant.
Environment and crime and linked. Anyone who's bothered spending a few minutes reading about the issues knows that.
But the most basic cause and effect is obvious.
These are shootings, which are likely gang related, which is likely drugs related. Drug dealers hang out in Brockley Cross because they can sit in their fat cars all day or leave their beamers on the pavement or in the road and no-one will bat an eyelid. Let enough dealers hang around eachother long enough and something bad will happen.
Just because I want a bit more order and law on the Coulgate Street and Brockley does not mean that I want or that this area would turn into a East Dulwich lite.
Brockley is area for fun, community engagement, business, - see the poem on Shardeloes, not for people shooting at each, stabbings, serial rapists, muggers, honeytrap killers.
The connection between recreational drug use and serious crime is a fantasy dreamt up by governments to keep drugs out of peoples hands and propagated by the media.
Well maybe, but recreational drug use in the context of this area, has the risk of getting out of hand. This area has form. I don't whether is to do with the no of bail hostels, betting shops, but lets' not downplay this. TWO people could have been killed, shot down like dogs on the streets of Brockley in the 7 days.
I take it very seriously. This has stop and has to stop NOW.
FFS - that's laughable.
Any other drug-addled conspiracy theories you'd like to share with us?
"The connection between recreational drug use and serious crime is a fantasy dreamt up by governments to keep drugs out of peoples hands and propagated by the media."
Smoke enough dope and you can convince yourself of anything.
Current Mayor to blame, change, change, change.
Person x is better we need change, change, change.
Same old problems change, change, change.
Change, change, change, change, change and change.
We need more change!
Anybody got any spare change?
'The connection between recreational drug use and serious crime is a fantasy dreamt up by governments to keep drugs out of peoples hands and propagated by the media'
You seriously believe that?
On the other hand, if all drugs were legalised we wouldn't have these problems as the supply would be out of the hands of gangsters.
I agree with saddened. If we are serious about showing these loons that we, the common man on the street won't accept this on our doorstep we need to do something visable to them. Be it a march, posters, man the streets ourselves, whatever. We need to look these BMW cruisers straight in the eye when we walk past them so they know people around here look around them and see stuff. And will report stuff we see to the police if necessary.
I have been deeply saddened by these shootings. The only thing that will deter trouble-makers from the area around the station, and from the area outside Tickle Me (and outside Honeypot!) is a visible, regular police presence. And I mean good old-fashioned officers who patrol daily ON FOOT and know all the business owners and shop-keepers.
Drug-dealing does bring a host of problems with it- the more people that see Brockley as a place to easily obtain/trade drugs, the more competitive the suppliers will become- and this WILL (and obviously has) lead to violence about who can sell what, where and to whom. There MUST be a zero-tolerance approach to dealers in Brockley. This is a beautiful, diverse, unique area- POLICE PATROLS PLEASE!!!!
Police, CCTV, parking permits and parking patrollers all very good ideas. However we do to turn our streets into a prison. The area needs also some more general renovation, stop the licence to betting agents and hostals, renovate the BX round about and the area around the station so that we all have more reasons to walk our own streets. Do locals really need a car dealer/mot in front of the Barge, one on BX and one on Brockley Road? Would we not prefer to have a fishmonger, a veggie boot a dry cleaner etc?
Dealers and thugs like rundown areas because they can control them easily. They hate streets with people walking around at any hours, restaurants shops and bars. Police patrolling and parking attendants, although very good deterrant, cannot be ever present and CCTV at the station would make them just move around the corner.
twin shootings show need for leadership, rather twin shootings show this is the way life for certain groups of people. Usually young, dumb kids who believe boom box mercedes cars with black out windows, a bit of bling and status symbol fighter dogs to compensate for a tiny todger, is something to strive and be respected for.
The issues are vast and complex, and lectures or phony words from middle classes saying how we must do something won't cut it.
The answers come from within the community and the parent(s), tho I doubt they have two parents. But then parents seem to blame society and absolve themselves of any responsibility for their darling gun-toting runts.
Have you ever seen an elephant fly? Have you seen a copper get his/her fat ass outta their car? Nope nor I, they race around with their blues lights whirling and sirens blaring - thinking they're the next Lewis Hamilton.
No they leave PCSOs (god bless em) to pound the streets, and what do they really do apart from give directions if you're lost.
Brockley kiwi, don't go to TM2 on your first day back! Brockley Mess is in a class of its own for breakfast.
I agree with the comment about too many cars on Coulgate St,would prefer if it was pedestrianised. I think that parking restrictions in the area will ease congestion and deter drug dealers with cars.
Also there are too many closed shops along Brockley Rd which makes the street look seedy...very attractive for dealers. We need to find a way to make more businesses come to Brockley Rd. I would like to see a drycleaner, a decent bakery, fishmongers and local supermarket with quality food at a reasonable cost
But if you want a greengrocers open one. If you want a 'decent' bakery open one. Same for the fishmongers etc. If you want the second-hand motor places and the betting shops to go come up with business plans to replace them.
Economic cleansing doesn't just happen by itself.
Any chalk outlines been drawn on the streets of the Bronxley this evening?
Brockley has had a problem for many years in the area around Brockley Cross, this is well known.
Crime can be 'designed' out of the area by changes to parking regulations that allow cars to loiter.
Policing could be improved.
Fairly obvious things like the community team introducing themselves to the shopkeepers. After this sort of incident the people who work in the shops around the station are probably feeling quite nervous.
The two recent shootings could have easily have been much more serious. There could have been fatalities.
I am not sure just what has to happen to the statistics before this becomes recognised as problem that needs some attention by the local government and the police.
OK, to you people who think that 'environment is linked to crime' as if its some kind of easy fix. Imagine BX is turned into a leafy suburb overnight with parking restrictions and friendly policemen...
So the drug dealers just stop dealing and go and become lawyers and doctors instead do they? No, of course not, they move to another part of town and do exactly the same thing elsewhere.
Nimbyism isn't solving the problem, it is just relocating it. As a few people have said on here, the solution needs to come from within - respected people on the estates need to get the kids to realise that there is more to life.
It's A link, not THE link. Similarly just because a 'respected' person says 'kids, put your guns down' is not a complete solution in it's self.
Anon at 9.23 = we are not trying to fix the problem for the country - but for our community. Perhaps they would move on to a less advantaged area, perhaps they would stop, who knows? But the liklihood of one of our kids, partners, relatives being caught in the cross fire would go. That, quite selfishly, is all I care about it. And, quite frankly, I shouldn't be made to feel that is wrong.
NIMBYISM? Too right "Not in my backyard". We are not talking about an application for an immigration centre, or a mobile phone mast here.We are talking about shootings. I don't want it anywhere near my backyard. The most worrying thing to me is the coucil reaction to this, refered to by Nick. If they aren't taking it seriusly, who is? COME ON COUNCILLORS - WE WANT ACTION
Is this really part of a councillor's job? What impact can they really have on this situation?
It's a police job, I'm not sure what people are expecting councillors to do?
I'm coming to this debate late and haven't read through every comment, but in my mind this makes the decision to shut the little Brockley Police Station seem stupid. Yes we have the mega police station in Lewisham now, from which police cars chase, sirens blazing, along Lewisham Way and through Brockley on the way to other areas, but as someone pointed out earlier in this thread, you rarely if ever see police actually in the streets around Brockley. At least I have never seen one.
The council can deal with part of the solution - the environment - and have been talking the talk ever since Heidi Alexander came on that walkabout a couple of years back. Time they delivered.
Agreed that the deep, long-term solution is different, and much harder to achieve. A turn around of deep-seated attitudes and ways of behaviour that have been going on a downward spiral for a couple of generations.
But at least with an improvement of the environment a possible, positive step can be taken.
I agree with HH - maybe they need to look at turning one of the troublesome car places into a local police station and kill 2 birds with one stone.
They have a police station in Howson road - but only staff it with volunteers on reception a few hours aday.
HH - I have seen the police - usually in Fishy Business and City Noodles. I know that htey must do good work - but isn't telling that the only tie we see them is in their cars or at a takeway.
And yes this is the councillors bag - they should get together with the police and ask for answers on what is to be done - they are also reaponsible,as Tamsin quite rightly says - for providing a safe environment
The crimes that have taken place are first and foremost a police matter of course.
However, these incidents have shown there is a wider problem that needs addressing to reduce the possibility of future incidents taking place.
Options open to the Council include:
1. Requesting a meeting with the community policing representatives to stress the need for a new approach to policing in the area
2. Targeted dispersal orders
3. Better enforcement of business licenses in the area - if businesses are not fulfilling their responsibilities to the community, then action can be taken against them
4. Doing what they have been promising to do for years and ripping up the Brockley Cross area and starting again, to create an area that is safer to navigate
5. Doing what they promised to do and instructing their traffic wardens to patrol the area, stopping the area being a hang-out
There are probably other options available to them too, but those are the ones that spring to mind.
The Council is not powerless, which is why Bullock promised to use the full range of Council powers to tackle similar issues on Lewisham Way.
Councils can do a lot that is within their power. Brockley Cross is a meeting place and it is well known that drug dealing takes place.
Putting a few bollards in place to deter cars is not difficult, as is changing the parking regulations.
It is done by other councils as part of a crime reduction strategy....
Maybe that is the issue, our local council does not believe there is a problem.
No statistical evidence?
Makes you wonder how bad it has to get.
Given there is a council election looming, it would be nice to know the view of the various candidates.
The mounted police are out exercising their horses fairly regularly. Can't see I've seen any others except when dealing with incidents.
Oh Jesus everyone really has got their knickers in a twist over this.
Two non fatal shooting amongst some kids and it's like someone's taken a dump on your prize winning begonias.
Brockley Cross has always had a certain edge to it. I remember a murder on Foxberry Road 6 years ago and around the same time saw a man being smashed in the face with a chain at 2 in the afternoon. I had a knife pulled on me there about 8 years ago, and remember a time when the train doors opened a tsunami of weed smoke announced Brockley to you.
It's always been dodgy, to think it's got any worse at all is just short term memory loss I'm afraid.
Amen to that "really". I've also been round here about 8 years now and whilst it was mildly sketchy in the early days, I feel about 100times safer around here than I did in my home town, where real random violence was all over the shop.
I think this thread has finally convinced me to move to depford or hackney or something. Brockley will be a white middle class hell in a few years with regimented buggy lanes for the yummy mummies and no pubs just gastro's
Bye bye.
Hang on, so the next time someone runs into a shop having just been shot we should just go brush it off and say..oh well, as you are still alive there is really nothing to worry about and in fact, you should count yourself lucky you weren't messing about here 8 years ago playing with weapons?
How progressive.
You might not find Deptford suitable but parts of Columbia might give you the edge you seek, anon.
I concur with the anon. It's all getting a bit too cosy for my tastes. I bought a small bag of fluff from a bloke outside Dukes and I'm being equated with Don Corleone... such tabloid criticism.
Anon @13:26 I'm confused, are you complaining that it's not violent enough or too violent?
Edgy might be OK (and a friend moving for financial and family reasons out to Wiltshire says that she will miss the sheer diversity of London) but the fact remains that a totally innocent foreign social worker was killed a couple of years back in the cross-fire of a crime related shooting.
Not acceptable in anyone's backyard.
even if she was slighly guilty it would have still been totally unacceptable
"a crime related shooting"??
OK - but you know what I mean...
A shooting related to on-going criminal activity rather than an enraged wife-murderer or something totally random like Hungerford or Dunblane.
3 weeks ago my car was shot at and a window smashed on the side my girlfriend was sitting whilst driving. This was outside Brocca Food market. After ringing the police and having them inspect my car the case was closed later that evening saying there was nothing they could do!
At first i was tempted to run them over, but instead rang the police. Not sure i made the right choice?
Well there *is* nothing they can do - what do you expect, for them to start running around with the Benny Hill sax music playing and waving truncheons around?
If someone shoots your car and pisses off there's not much evidence to go on. And the mung liberals keep whinging about CCTV pervasion so perhaps there wasn't enough of that around either...
I rang literally 10 seconds after it happened saying i could still see them and this is what they look like, are wearing and in what direction they were heading.
What did i expect....? Perhaps a faster response time so they could have actually caught them?
To not have to shell out money to repair my car because of some ignorant fools? I dunno, maybe i just expected not to get shot at.
I think those calling for 'councillors' to do something need to remember that in Lewisham all the power rests with one man: the directly elected mayor. The councillors themselves, particularly opposition ones as you have here, are not 'in charge'. They can represent you and liaise and make a noise, but they're not mini-emperors. They seem to be doing a decent job thus far of getting hold of police to get more information on your behalf.
been thinking about moving to the area but this seriously puts us off...what a shame that brockley has these problems
@Anon 15.08
Well next time pay for your drugs before you try and do a runner!
@anon16.57, I understand your concerns of course, and this recent spate of violence has come at a bad time for you (not that there would be a good time). But there are stabbings and shootings all over London - and most other large cities in the UK - on a regular basis. You can't rule out Brockley based on that. Look at the crime statistics overall - there's a thread somewhere on here about the figures. It's no worse than a million other places and indeed lots better than many.
@anon17:17
Thanks, that's true, got to keep it in perspective and there do seem to be loads of good things about Brockley to balance it out, but it is pretty alarming to hear of gun problems in the area.. knives are bad enough. anyway we're not totally put off yet!
There are some ever so much nastier areas than Brockley.
Take your pick: Deptford, Catford, New Cross, Peckam, Camberwell, Brixton.
We bought here in October and definitely don't regret it. Brockley has a lot to offer. Unfortunately gun and knife crime happens. It very rarely involves Joe public (except for the poor individuals who witness such violence) so as long as you're not planning on joining a gang.....
Don't be put off - square footage for your money it's fantastic value and the south east is the greenest quadrant of the capital. Also, despite having had my handbag snatched a couple of times in the twenty years I've lived here it, still "feels" safe (whereas Brixton gave me the ab-dabs after ten minutes - it did not need the fact that in the flat we were looking at the bath was in the kitchen to put us off!).
Arts festivals, parks, easy journey to Central London (despite grouching on my part and serious grouching by Lou Baker). The only downside is if your relatives live out west as ours do - and it is an hour's journey before you hit the M4 or M40.
Apologies for the long post...
I am really saddened by the two shootings that have happened here recently and only very relieved that nobody has been killed. I have to add, however, that the portrait of the area that is being painted on this thread is not one I recognise at all. Having lived close to Brockley station for the last four years, this is only the second time I have heard of any serious aggro. The first was soon after we moved in.
I'm not saying that means there isn't any bad stuff going on... obviously there is, as there is in most parts of London. But everyday I walk around the area around the station, often up to Brockley Cross, either on my own or with my young children. The overwhelming feeling has been friendly with a strong sense of community spirit. Yes, you get a few dodgy looking types loitering around, but I've never felt nervous or threatened... as I frequently did when I lived in Dalston and in Stockwell previously.
It seems to me that Brockley is an area in transition, and the changes I have seen even in the last few years are definitely for the better (the new shops and cafes are great, and the atmosphere seems more friendly too). I may be wrong, but I believe these two appalling shootings are the first such incidents for some time, and I think we should try to use them as a catalyst to further improve the area. Several suggestions have been made, including sorting out parking problems, pedestrianisation of Coulgate St, CCTV(?), more police on the beat, and changing the stupid double roundabout and rubbish pedestrian crossings at Brockley Cross.
Obviously none of these is going to fix the problems alone which go much deeper, but they will all help create a safer and better environment for us to live in. I get the feeling from living here and also from this blog that there is a lot of goodwill towards Brockley, so we should all press for the changes we believe will help it improve. We really mustn’t let this kind of thing escalate.
You may, of course, want to wait until after the election to see if we have a change of MP, but Joan Ruddock’s email is ruddockj@parliament.uk, and I for one am going to write to her to look into doing something about this. Maybe more chance of her listening before she’s re-elected than after!
You are right, it is an area in transition and moving in a positive direction. Those of us who have lived around here for some years remember when it was really bad for crime. There are some shocking stories.
But there is much that the local council can do to improve the area.
They control the parking regulations and traffic around Brockley Cross, the station and Brockley Road.
Brockley road has seen some fatal accidents. Cars see the long straight stretch between Brockley Cross and Wickam Rd and put their foot down.
Cars can be just as lethal as guns.
The General Election on May 6 is being held at the same time as the Local Government Election of councillors and the election of Mayor of Lewisham.
http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/CouncilAndDemocracy/DemocracyAndElections/
So this is a local issue and I would be interested to hear what out local candidates have to say.
I have to say I agree with Voice of Reason. I am shocked at the shootings, but this really doesn't feel like the Brockley I know.
I went for a walk with my baby last Saturday in the sunshine - my experiences were:
Very friendly and helpful service from the lady in Amin's Chemist
Admiring the beautiful cherry blossom on Tressillian
Watching fathers and sons, and friends of all ages, having a cheerful kickabout in Hilly Fields
A carpet of beautiful anenomes, narcissi and tulips in the garden part of HF with a couple of people sitting on a bench enjoying the quiet
A lady walking a friendly Jack Russell amongst the violets and celandines in the Cemetery
Popping into Budgens where they know my baby's name and make her laugh while I'm being served
This is not some idealised view, this is my normal experience of Brockley on a day to day basis! I have never felt scared walking around here, even alone at night. Shootings and other violet crime does happen everywhere - someone was even executed (shot in the head) a year or so ago in East Dulwich! *collective yummy gasp of horror*
I fully agree that there is much that can be done to improve things, particularly in the BX area, but on the whole this is a great place to live that does not feel threatening at all. I don't regret moving here for an instant and I am pleased to be able to bring up my children in such a lovely area.
it is really good to hear this from people living in the area, very reassuring and encouraging and a positive way for a negative thread to turn. another example of the greatness of brockley central
From those of you who commented that environment influences behaviour I hope that you'll come on Sunday to help make the common look nicer.
Sunday 18th April, 2.00pm-6.30pm
I don't mean to trivialise the seriousness of this thread, but I hope that you'll make it. It would be nice to meet more BC'ers.
I'm glad you said that, Maradoll - I thought the same, but as I am not able to go on Sunday and you are, it's much more effective coming from you. It's very easy for people to get up in arms about the problems but when asked to get actively involved in a possible solution (or a least a way of improving things), suddenly everyone goes a bit quiet! We had the same when we did the petition for the new playground. When asked, lots of people claimed they would help but when it came to the crunch, most of them couldn't even be bothered to go as far as their next-door neighbours' houses to get a signature. If you feel strongly about stuff, get involved and make it happen!
20+ males along Lewisham Way end of Upper Brockley Road yesterday drinking alcohol in wait for it, a 'Drink Control Zone'.. smoking canabis too; and making enough noise in the process to force people out of their homes.
This despite Sir Steve's assurance on Sept 20th 2006 that he would use 'full' powers to remedy the situation.
Well done Anon 12:17. I was wondering when someone would mention the elephant in the room, the seemingly tolerated, open air drugshop that is that end of U.B.R. Must be tough living there.
It's not pleasant living there or even walking past. It's not uncommon for residents to find access to their homes blocked by this mob. The lack of concern is shocking..noise levels at times are such that people living here can't have telephone conversations with friends/family without sounding like they're phoning from the terraces at a football match with extra 'language' thrown in for good measure.
The smell of weed is all pervasive too-I thought it was illegal to smoke this in public (whatever about dealing the stuff which goes on aswell).
I've read people suggesting that things had become better down this end of Brockley-I can assure you that they have not..
Just to clarify, there is no dispersal order at the end of Upper Brockley Road-this was asked for by residents but not granted. Instead there is a Drink Control Zone which is never enforced and therefore not worth the Council headed paper it is written on.
Someone having a quiet spliff in the sun is hardly the most threatening thing in the world.
'QUIET spliff', you cant have been near that junction lately.
I've lived in Brockley for a couple of years and despite living very close to Brockley Cross (in the same Harefield Mews that one poster describes as "Semi-abandoned"..... I am happy to assure you that it is happily lived in by me and my lovely neighbours and there is a great sense of community in the mews) have not experienced any of the problems talked about on this thread. yes, there are occasional groups of kids around, but that goes for any part of London, or indeed any big city. And as for all the people calling for parking restrictions, all I can say to that is "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!". I like that people can park outside the shops and pop in for something. I like that my guests can park without hassle on the local streets. I think it's wonderful that there are no parking restrictions around the station area.
Another shooting in Brockley took place on Saturday night at the Lewisham Way end of Upper Brockley Road.
Four shots were fired at around midnight and a bullet went through the window of my friends front room!
He is on the first floor and was in at the time, he is naturally totally freaked out.
A police armed response team arrived but there are no leads.
Also there was a gang related incident with a knife outside Gulens yesterday evening.
It's only a matter of time before there is a murder. Let's just hope that no bystanders get caught up in it.
@Node - do you have any more details about the Gulen's incident please? A link to any source?
I've noticed its promoting special events at the bar fairly regularly on Twitter?
Random question mark at the end of that last post.
A man was shot dead in New Cross yesterday.
I was cycling past and saw a scuffle with a bunch of kids. One pulled out a knife and about four of them ran towards Brockley Cross. The police briefly cordoned off the pavement...
Cant find anything about the shooting at the Lewisham end of Upper Brockley Rd ?
I wondered what that was on UBR, I drove past and there were police with the biggest machine guns I've ever seen everywhere. Not sure how I'd cope with a bullet coming through my window!
They won't do anything about waht goes on at the end of UBR until someone is killed-by the sounds of things, that is not a long way off.
If it meant things would be done, the sooner the better I say.
And now this - a 16 old stabbed to death in a park in Sydenham and males from Forest Hill and Deptford have been arrested!!! It's so sad that this has happen - the poor family.
Family shock at teenager's murder in south London
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8664575.stm
Anon 14:00 I believe that language is used at football matches too.
With the possible exception of Highbury, I cant think anyone would want to live in a football stadium, Anon of May 8th. Did that need saying?
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